Updated: Apr 8, 2018
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Troy- Brother A.J., where were you born and raised?
A.J.- I was born at Gouverneur Hospital which is on Clinton Street. I was raised on 8th street and Avenue D, on the Lower Eastside of Manhattan. My mother and father passed away before I reached 13 years of age. My sister and I relocated to Jacksonville Florida where my Grandmother’s sister lived at and she raised us.
Troy- How long did you stay in Florida before you made it back to New York?
A.J.- About 2 years. But it was pretty hectic for me and my sister dealing with the death of both our parents. I first had to deal with the death of my father and not really knowing the reason and then a few years later my mother dies all of a sudden as well. So life was like wow!
Troy- Before you moved to Florida what was it like for you, your sister and mother in L.E.S before your parents passed?
A.J.- It was good, my mom’s was like a social worker in a hospital, which was Gouverneur Hospital. She had a good job, good income; she took care of me and my sister. We used to take cabs to school every day. That was kind of crazy back then because we were taking Yellow cabs everyday to school.
Troy- Why was she putting the two of you in cabs back then?
A.J.- Well Avenue D is kind of far from a train station and she had the dough at that time working for a city hospital.
Troy- Was she born in Manhattan also?
A.J.- Yes, right on Henry Street down in the Lower East Side. I remember my father, but he passed when I was like 6 years old.
Troy- So was it wild over there in the Lower East Side for you?
A.J.- Once my Father passed my mother pretty much kept us off the streets and a lot of what we did was pretty much in doors.
Troy- So what was it like for you in Florida? What made you come back up to New York?
A.J.- In Florida I got in a lot of trouble. I had dreams of being a basketball player but it was probably more of me wanting to be accepted. When I was in New York before my mother passed I had a little game playing point guard. My cousin Matthew Pastures had a game, he was real good. So that made me more interested in playing. I took my game down to Florida. But when I got to Florida, by my mother passing I went into a shell pretty much. So I really couldn’t get motivated because the death was always in the back of my mind. I started getting into a lot of trouble because there was cats down there with that New York this and New York that. While in school I got into a fight and I threw this dude through the window.
A.J.- So that was kind of violent. But it was a first floor window. I didn’t go to jail for the fight but I did get expelled from school. So my aunt called my grandmother and said “This is not a good look, we got to get him out of here.” She was like “We got to take him back to where it all started.” This was like 1975, so me and my sister came back to New York. My grandmother had to get a bigger apartment because it was just her and my grandfather living in the apartment on the lower east side. So we all moved up to the south Bronx to a bigger apartment. The new place was on 149th street and Trinity Avenue.
Troy- Were you too young for Vietnam?
A.J.- I might have been but I was in a shell, I don’t really know. I knew about the Armed forces but I wasn’t into Martin Luther King Jr... I say that because him and Malcolm X died right around the time my parents passed away. I was like the underground Black man back then. I was hurting inside.
Troy- The Invisible man!
Troy- I asked you about that because I wanted to know if you were able to be drafted, or were you too young to be drafted.
A.J.- Well I did go to the army.
Troy- I just wanted to know if you were closer to Kool Herc in age as well, because I know he had to be of age to be drafted.
A.J.- O.k., I see, I might have been, but I think what Muhammad Ali did changed a lot of things pertaining to the draft.
Troy- I didn’t think about that. What got you open on the music?
A.J.- Well before my mother passed she had a nice collection of music. Al Green, Isaac Hayes and others and her living room was a little bit type official, so she used to tell us stay out of the living room. So I would sneak in the living room when she was sleep and play around with the records. So that was my first experience with the music.
Troy- So did you slowly come out of that shell once you moved back to New York?
A.J.- Well mostly when I came to New York I ran right into the gangs, that was where the drama was at. They bought us right there to 149th street and Jackson, Cypress and Tinton avenue.
Troy- Damn kid right in the middle of Lebanon!
A.J.- Exactly, the Bachelors were there, the Black Spades, the Savage Nomads. And they were terrorizing everyone. Take your coat, sneakers, all that. I went to Jr. High school 56 on Madison and Henry streets down in L.E.S. and then when I came back from Florida my grandmother had me going all the way back down town to L.E.S. for high school. That high school was Seward Park on Grand Street. Oh and I went to Wolfson high school in Florida.
Troy- So while you were in Seward Park you had the Chinese brothers and other nationalities going to school with you?
A.J.- I had the Chinese, Jewish and regular white boys down on Orchard Street.
Troy- And then come back to Lebanon and dealt with them cats!
A.J.- Exactly right, things were crazy. After awhile I got tired of waking up so early to travel so far. So I got with a few cats up in the Bronx, probably got my first job as a messenger. Back then messengers were popular. I had a couple of dollars in my pocket. Back then my grandmother made sure I had money in my pocket. So cats would pass the word around Franklin high school is having a party, or Brandeis high school is having a party. I was hanging out in Franklin parties when Richie “The Animal” Adams was going there.
Troy- They had a whole crew there with Steve Burtt, Gary Springers and others that were monster ball players.
A.J.- Right some of them later went to Iona or U.N.L.V..
Troy- So those cats I think we're just a little bit younger than you because I remember them from the tournaments around town especially King Towers.
A.J.- Right I used to be in King Towers watching also. Walter Berry is a good friend of mine
Troy- Right, Walter “The Truth” Berry used to be up in those tournaments as well! A lot of brothers went to the NBA from that era. So did you complete high school?
A.J.- No I got stressed out in high school and tried to sneak my way out of high school, but my grandmother was real strict about school. So she told me if I left school I was going to have to leave her house. So I messed around and landed in Harlem prep.
Troy- Right Busy Bee was telling me that.
A.J.- That was over on 135th and 8th avenue. That was like oh my God!
Troy- All the hustlers and beautiful women were in there.
A.J.- That was the hustler’s playground. Nicky Barnes, Bat, Guy Fisher, Shameka.
Troy- But those dudes weren’t going there because they were older than you!
A.J.- You right but their girls were going there.
Troy- So they would be parked outside of the school lamping on their girls.
A.J.- They would bring their girls down in their Seville’s and all that. Billy Bang wasn’t a hustler but a ball player and he would come through also. As well as Gary Green, Charlie Rock. I know you from the Grant projects, that’s why you know a lot of these names but I really didn’t know all of those guys. I just used to see them. In fact I lived in the Grant for a minute as well. I was in what ya’ll call the 4 building (Short for C74 building that housed in mates on Rikers Island!).
Troy- Your talking about wild ass 430. Keith Sweat came out of that building. I remember seeing you back then in front of the building, somebody pointed you out to me. Now Harlem Prep school was that a G.E.D. type school or a regular get your high school diploma school.
A.J.- Nah it was a college preparatory school where you got kicked out of high school and this place prepared you for college. Right fast I went from Seward Park to the Army for about a month.
Troy- (We both start laughing.) You are a funny dude.
A.J.- My best friend did the buddy buddy move on me. This was my man Clay Westbrook. He said forget that messenger thing this is better money, we get to travel and go on planes. The day we got drafted he got the credit and they sent him to Fort Jackson in South Carolina and sent me to Fort Gordon in Georgia. I did not care for this at all.
Troy- Another rude awaking for you!
A.J.- Exactly, being in the army is like being in jail. A little bit before I went to enlist I injured my leg in a basketball game. They did not detect it when they took my physical. When I got to the army and seen that I wanted to get out, I faked like I hurt my leg. They looked at the leg good and said “I wasn’t supposed to be in here from day one!” They sent me back to New York and that lead me back to Harlem Prep high school. My grandmother was back on my case trying to make me do the right thing, so I had to go to Harlem Prep. When I got there it was like Whoa! It was crazy. By this time I was selling weed. So I fitted right in to the culture. Most of the guys that went to the school were selling drugs. I had to make money anyway because the girl I was going with at the time thought I was getting large money. I told my grandmother this was my first girl friend and the first girl I made love to and it’s her birthday I really want to get her something nice. I don’t have any money can you help me out. My grandmother goes to Macy’s and gets me a crazy diamond piece of jewelry. I give that to my girl at the time so she now has crazy expectations like I got large paper. I am definitely broke though! Her family thought I had money to because of the ring. So I had to do different types of maneuvers to make it happen like I had dough.
Troy- I feel you.
A.J.- So I started to sell weed and the weed game took off.
Troy- Who hit you with your first package on the weed?
A.J.- This guy name John D. hit me with my first package and then took me to 145th street and Bradhurst Avenue where he copped from. He should not have done that, because then I started to do my own hustle.
Troy- Took the middle man out!
A.J.- Exactly right. I blew up and started to come to school with the Corter Fields (very popular coat for that time.) on.
Troy- Oh you killed it like that kid, really flossin!
A.J.- Playboys, Clarks, and things like that. It was kind of crazy.
Troy- Why you say that?
A.J.- Well you go through life in a shell and I wasn’t the most handsome cat in the world so I do things to be accepted in my life style. So when I started selling that weed I blew up! I mean I blew up for real!
Troy- I feel you.
A.J.- I had the cake; I had the diamond, the gold, and the chicks. This was like in early 1975, 76. I think I was the first person in the Bronx with a moped.
Troy- You had people working for you?
A.J.- Yeah I had cats working for me. I had my girl and all her friends. I had a lot of girls working for me, taking the weed to high schools. Then I was taking the weed to Harlem Prep and I was smashing them. Then things started getting kind of crucial because the Police started playing me close, watching me. They couldn’t catch me because I kept it moving. I was hanging out with my homies and they would tell me from time to time “one day the cops are going to catch you.” So I was like we are going to have to try to do something else. Back then I was a Kool Herc fanatic.
Troy- Talk to me!
A.J.- Everywhere Herc went I was there, Cedar Park, Sedwick Avenue, Hunter college.
Troy- Talk about the first time you seen him play.
A.J.- Probably the first time I seen him was Cedar Park.
Troy- That was the first time you knew anything about Hip Hop?
A.J.- That’s right, through Herc. But I heard about Pete D.J. Jones and Flowers and all that. I use to follow all that disco. You know go down town to Nell Gwen’s and Nemo’s etc. We were rocking back then.
Troy- Charles Gallery as well?
A.J.- Yes Charles Gallery. Oh you know about all that! Then Kool Herc, you know how people in the Bronx are, “yo there is this dude named Herc, this dude is crazy.” “Well where is he at?” “He is at the park on Cedric Avenue!” “Come on lets go smoke some Ill and go up there.” I had the drug money; so things were kind of comfortable back then for me. So the next thing is I am sitting there watching this dude like whoa! But I couldn’t feel him because he played a lot of break beats. He wasn’t playing a lot of stuff off of the radio. He was playing different s---, but that is what made him unique. Then he would draw a crazy crowd and there were a lot of dust smokers, so things were like whoa “this guy Herc is crazy”. So we became like regulars. He went from the Hevalo to the Executive Play House and we followed him there. Then there would be times we would go see Pete D.J. Jones and Flowers. We would go down town and play the down town movement and all that. But then the money started getting so good my boys were like “yo you got all this money let's give a party.”
Troy- Hold up for a moment, you said there was something different about Herc’s sound but you said there were times you weren’t feeling it?
A.J.- No, I was feeling it, everything about Herc was perfect. He had the echo chamber. He had the crazy big sound system with the Macintosh amp. Yo Herc was big.
Troy- As well as Coke La Rock, do you remember seeing him at this time?
A.J.- Yes, exactly, I remember seeing Coke LA Rock! I remember Clark Kent, I remember Mike Mike with the lights. I remember Eldorado Mike. The Nigger Twins.
Troy- Mike Mike with the lights, what were his exact contributions.
A.J.- He was most likely the light man because he was hooking up the lights in the clubs. Herc and his boys were a tight crew back then, and I was a loyal follower and all that. It all looked real good so that is why my homeboys were pushing me to do this party thing. They even suggested that we get involved with this promoting thing since we didn’t have the skills at that time to be the performers at that time. So they said lets just try and give a party first.
Troy- So you were a promoter before a D.J.!
A.J.- Yes, that is right. Back then Pete D.J. Jones was big , so you had to be a known promoter to get him or have money. So our first thought was let’s get Pete D.J. Jones vs. Kool Herc!
Troy- Word up!
A.J.- Yeah we were trying to get it at the Savoy Manor on 149th street on the Grand Concourse. It was crazy because Pete D.J. Jones was with it, because all he wanted was a deposit for the date. So we went and got Pete D.J. Jones and we got Savoy, now the task was to get Kool Herc.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.) This is good stuff. Your first party you go straight to the head like that?
A.J.- Yeah the big dudes, because I had money like that. I went to the top for the top of the line dudes. We were built like that. So once again it was a matter of getting Herc. I think we had to pay somebody a hundred dollars for Kool Herc’s phone number. The money really didn’t mean anything….
Troy-..Because you needed that introduction to him!
A.J.- That’s right. Kool Herc was real big at that time. When we got on the phone he explained to us that we were not any real promoters, he doesn’t deal with cats like us because we are not established promoters and this and that. He also said that he was not interested in battling Pete. He also said we probably didn’t have the money to pay him, so he could probably do the concept his self. So he just reneged on the whole thing.
Troy- You were ready to pay though right, even double I Imagine!
A.J.- That’s right I would have paid Herc right out of my pocket even if I didn’t make any money. I had enough to pay Herc! But he wasn’t taking any bookings like that; he was only dealing with established cats. Plus Herc was doing a lot of stuff on his own. He could have gotten Savoy Manor by himself and had Kool Herc versus Pete D.J. Jones.
A.J.- …and that was the way he bought it to us. So long story short, we were already committed, so we did Pete D.J. Jones by himself. The night of the party was good because my girl and my homeboy’s girl were popular in the neighborhood, they were light skinned cuties.
Troy- What were their names?
My girls name was Jaine; she is the mother of my child. My homeboy’s girl name was Dee Dee. She was probably the baddest chick in the Bronx. They used to go to Dodge high school. So the girls helped spread the word around. We were new dudes just trying to do some neighborhood s---. But we had a good D.J. We had the flyer drawn up and everything; you know what I am saying. We had our art teacher from Harlem Prep draw up the flyer. The thing about Pete is he was a little bit more established. I remember going to his house on Anderson Avenue up the hill to give him his deposit. There was this guy at his house practicing. While I was waiting to give Pete the money this guy that was practicing kept looking at me, after while he was like “yo who you?” I say to him I ain’t anybody my man. (A.J. is laughing!) He asks where you got all that jewelry from. I said “yo my man it ain’t even important.” But he was fascinated by me. He probably saw something in me because I looked like money. So after I paid Pete the money I went outside to leave. The dude came out side; he was like “yo my man is that you’re Moped?”
Troy- (Troy starts laughing!)
A.J.- I said yeah! He said “what?” He said “where did you get money to buy that.” I said ‘my man that ain’t nothing”…..he said “can I ride with you?” I said “you are going to ride on the back?” He said “yeah”. I said “what s your name?” He said “my name is Love Bug Star Ski.”
A.J.- I said o.k.. At the time I had never heard of Love Bug Star Ski though. I said o.k. come on. He got on my bike and I took him to my hood. I told everybody this is Pete D.J. Joneses man! He was like a little celebrity because he was Pete D.J. Joneses man or whatever. But he had borrowed some money from me, and because he was Pete’s man I gave it to him, and he paid it right back. During this time I was still going to Harlem Prep high and everything was real smooth because I was selling drugs and everything was all good but the police was on me. So now the party goes off but I don’t make any money, I break even. I ain’t mad. But the dude Star Ski is on me. He is on me because I got dough. He is coming around my hood hanging out and s---. And every time he borrows money for his situations he is paying me back. So he is becoming a friend. But now he knows that I am hustling.
A.J.- At first he is in suspense.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.) How do you know that the police are getting close to you? Are they doing pat downs to you right in the streets?
A.J.- They stopping me, but I am a little too ahead of the game for them! They can’t catch me with the weight though. I am copping a lot of weight across the bridge in Harlem. But I would have somebody else in another car while I am copping. Coming back by myself, they can’t figure me out. So they step to my Grand Mother and said to her “your grand son is out of order.” And by this time my grandmother is working Tenant patrol. So he said to her “your son is out of control and he doesn’t care so you know what we are going to do, we are going to get you evicted from this project.”
Troy- Damn kid it was like that?
A.J.- Yeah, he said if you don’t talk to him. She was like the vice president of tenant patrol. So she was like whatever you are doing you are going to have to stop doing it because they are going to kick me out etc, etc. I was like whoa. So I took the suggestion from my Grand Mother, because I really didn’t want to see my grandmother embarrassed like that. So the word hit the streets hard that the police are watching A.J. and they are going to get me soon. But I wasn’t getting scared I was still doing my thing. Star Ski is watching all of this and he says you know what you got all this money why don’t you let me teach you how to D.J.?
A.J.- I said D.J.? He said yeah. I said I don’t want to be no D.J! He said “you are a drug dealer and you are popular right now, if you start d.j.ing you are going to be bigger. It is going to be better then hustling plus it is legal.” I said well how are we going to start? He said if you got 5 or 10 thousand we can go and buy some turntables and equipment. I said what about all that equipment I seen you playing with. He said that’s not mine that is Pete D.J. Jones stuff. So I was like wow, and I thought about it. The next thing you know I am going down to Sam Ash.
Troy- 5 to 10 thousand is what you needed?
A.J.- Back then that was about right! So I go down there and buy everything, turntables, amp, speakers, the wire speakers, echo chamber.
Troy- Damn kid you bought the kit.
A.J.- I bought the whole kit in one day. (We both start laughing.) So I take everything up to my girl’s house.
Troy- So with all that money you didn’t want to get your own apartment on the side?
A.J.- Not really after my grandmother I was living with my girl and her family. She had a big family and I had money. You know when you getting money you are not thinking about the simpler s--- like that! Like get your own apartment because something might happen. And you are right I should have been thinking like that. But now I got the equipment and me and Star Ski our practicing and doing our little thing. So Star Ski is like “yo lets take this down to the park.” I was like whoa. It might have been the summer of 1977.
Troy- O.k. that was the year the Yankees won their first World Series in a long time. And the Portland Trail Blazers won the N.B.A. championship.
A.J.- Right, we had gone over to the park on 149th street and Jackson Avenue. It’s Star Ski and D.J. Aaron. They were calling me D.J. Aaron and s---. So we are doing our thing and the crowd is coming because Star Ski already had a little bit of a following because he had did Burger King with Flash…
Troy- That’s right I heard about the Burger King Disco where when it would close at night they would take the chairs and tables and put them in the back and party all night.
A.J.- That’s right, plus he was doing a lot of undercover stuff he was doing with Pete. So they were coming to see him not me. But the thing is I started getting the hang of it. To be honest the neighborhood was coming to see me but the people that were coming from across town were coming to see Star Ski. The game got tighter, and when the cold came we moved in to this center around the corner. It was called Moore House center, and it held about 200 people. So we went up in there and we started selling that out.
Troy- So you weren’t getting any beefs when you first started doing the outside jams?
A.J.- Nah, the police liked me. The police were awarding me. Man the guys that owned the stores close by the park would bring me beer or whatever I wanted because by me bringing the music out it made money for them.
Troy- Right, right.
A.J.- See because back then even though it was the south Bronx it was not that violent. It was a little violent because the Black Spades were coming around, but it wasn’t crazy, crazy. You know what I am saying? Somebody might go up on the roof and throw a bottle off, you are always going to get something like that.
Troy- So the cops went from hating you to loving you?
A.J.- To loving me! The same cops that were after me wouldn’t f--- with me in the park.
Troy- So I know you put a smile on grandma’s face too?
A.J.- Exactly! Grand ma was like oh that’s my grandson. And I am doing this and that and all the girls are loving me. So Love Bug and I are coming off, and the crowd follows us from the park to the indoors and paying. So now even the name started getting large. So Star Ski is now like “Yo I can’t call you D.J. Aaron anymore because it doesn’t fit.” He says we are going to have to change your name. I say o.k. so what do you have in mind. He says “your name is Aaron and your baby’s mother’s name is Jaine, so we are going to use the initials A.J.”
Troy- Now what I got from Busy Bee was because you shopped at A.J. Lester’s men’s store in Harlem that was how you got your name!
A.J.- Well I did do that, but that wasn’t why or how I got the name. But it was because of my girl and he should have known that. Yes I did shop there, I was getting that money to be able to shop there and you know I was killing it going back to the Bronx with that fly gear. And all the fly brothers at my school rocked A.J. Lester’s gear. In fact now my name is getting real big in school and the teachers would give me whatever I wanted and it was like I was an N.B.A. star. I never had to go to school and I would still get A’s in every class! My name was humming. Plus I used to do charity for the school by doing parties for the basketball team to get their uniforms. While in Moore house center we got too big for the place. I never heard of Bam in those early days. It went from Pete D.J. Jones and Kool Herc to Grand Master Flash.
A.J.- Bam was over there in Bronx River. But Flash was that dude. So now all you hear is Grand Master Flash and the Three emcees! He had Mel, Cowboy and Creole and they were killing s---! But they were on the other side of town. I was on the south Bronx side; Flash was a little bit more to the East of the Bronx. So we’re doing Moore House and we would do an 8pm to 3am party. But when we would get there by 6pm to set up there would be a line around the corner to get in our party.
Troy- Damn! It was just you and Star Ski and no emcees?
A.J.- Well we did have an emcee name Kenny Gee.
Troy- That was you and Busy Bee’s homie!
A.J.- Right, but he was a gangster in fact he caught a bid. He was from my girl’s projects, Moore Houses. I was across the street in Saint Mary’s projects. He used to help me out when I would get the equipment out of my girl’s house.
Troy- Was he a real emcee or just as nice as say Caz or those other dudes?
A.J.- Caz is my man I seen him back then but he was just starting out when I was killing it. I remember catching him as Casanova Fly, he was ripping it back then! You didn’t even have to be nice back then all you needed was a concept, a little voice and you didn’t need a lot of rhymes. Back then it wasn’t about the emcee.
A.J.- It was about the d.j., the emcee was the dude that used to shout the d.j. out. The emcee made you big. People were paying to see names back then. They were paying to see Flash then. They weren’t paying to see Flash and the three emcees! You were paying to see Grand Master Flash, Pete D.J. Jones and Kool Herc. You were paying to see d.j. names. As we got bigger we did a show in Moore House center and the manager of Flash, Ray Chandler came to see us, me and Love Bug. Ray Chandler was amazed at the crowd. He was like whoa. So he tried to set us up. He came to us and said he would let us battle Flash and Disco Bee but on their turf, at the Dixie Club on Freeman street. I told Love Bug that was not a good idea at that time, because we are just moving up. We were just rising to the top. Why should we battle Flash? He was like that would be good for publicity by us getting in front of a bigger crowd. But I was like that could be the end of my career, because the s--- you taught me wasn’t enough because I seen this dude Flash!
Troy- He was legend already.
A.J.- Flash was a D.J., I am a record player. I play records, Flash is a d.j.. But Love Bug was like yo the way s--- is going now that’s right in front of us any way. So for us to excel together we have to take that date. He was like I am going to hold you down any way. All you have to do is everything I taught you. We might not win but we are not going to get embarrassed.
Troy- So when you started learning this were you really starting to dig the art of the D.J.?
A.J.- Oh yeah I was feeling it, of course I was. The way my name was moving I didn’t get a chance to struggle. I just flew right into the mix, the public eye. The night we battled Flash it was either hit or miss. If you miss that would probably be the end of A.J., because Love Bug would probably always be there because he was a real emcee and D.J. So the night of the battle me and Love Bug had about 2 or 3 hundred people that came to see us.
Troy- How many people was the Dixie able to hold?
A.J.- About 500 people could get in. So I had my cheering squad, but Flash had the crazy crowd. I had my system but he didn’t have a system of his own. He borrowed a lot from other people.
Troy- Right, I heard Mean Gene’s and others.
A.J.- Right Mean Gene, but this night he had s--- that looked like it came from Infinity Machine. He must have borrowed s--- from everybody in the Bronx!
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.) I hear what you are saying because Infinity Machine had top of the line equipment.
A.J.- So Flash came into the spot with his equipment and I was like Whoa, where am I going to put mine at. He was like you can set yours up any where; you know he was gassed up any way. So now I am nervous asking what am I going to do. Love Bug was like a motivator to me. He said just do what I told you, everything is going to be o.k. I am nervous because the crowd is large and my people are there and they really are excited.
Disco Bee opened up and played his little s---. Then it’s my turn and I get on and I say whoa. Everybody is crowded around and I am not high off of anything, I am very focused now, this is some serious s---. You know what I am saying.
Troy- (Troy is laughing.)
A.J.- This is some serious s--- no mind altering drugs or alcohol. I am trying to think about my game plan because he is a D.J. and I am trying to learn how to be that d.j.! So I said I know what I am going to do I am going to go into my crate and start playing things that he never heard of. I had break beats nobody had at that time. I was shopping at Down Stairs records, and Elroy was hitting me with mad beats.
Troy- I heard about Elroy many times. Do you remember the records you played that night?
A.J.- I played Groove to get down, Catch a Groove.
Troy- At that time nobody heard of those records?
A.J.- Nah, I played Kool and The Gang’s Funky Granny!
Troy- Funky Granny!?
A.J.- I am so funky I am going to Funk the world up! (A.J. mimics the Granny record.) I am a Funky Granny!
Troy- I never heard of that one.
A.J.- I got a tape with that record in my crib right now.
Troy- Please brother! I hear about all these tapes you got, but can’t nobody get them out of you. You know I got tapes, let's do this!
A.J.- I got them and me and you are going to work something out. But I went deep into my crate and started playing s--- n------ never heard. Flash started looking at me, like what the f---! And the crowd started rocking! They started rocking and started big upping me and started clapping.
Troy- I thought you were going to have to beat him with your hands but you handled him with your record selection.
A.J.- Exactly, that was my strategy; So Love Bug jumps on the mic and starts rocking with the beats that I am playing. Oh No! Flash was still hard as hell though to deal with, doing ill s---!!!!!
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.) I be loving this stuff here!!!!!!!!!
A.J.- Flash got kind of tight, like who the f--- is these n------!? But the thing was I had my crowd there, and now I got Flash’s crowd on mines. “Oh S---, what the f--- is the name of that?” So after I got on Flash gets on and he kills it. But at the end of the party they was shaking our hands, talking about yo my man…..
A.J.- Even the Casanova’s, “yo my man, homie you did good.”
Troy- Ain’t that something even the Casanova’s.
A.J.- So here comes Ray Chandler, he was like “yo my man I like that. I am going to sign you and Star Ski to Black Door Productions.” He said he only had one group and that was Flash and the Three emcees, and me and Star Ski was going to be the second group and we are going to play everywhere. He told me not to take any bookings from any one, just him.
A.J.- He says to me “you own your system so your price is going to be different then what I give Flash and his boys. But we are going to work that out.” I said o.k. I like that. So I am opening up for Grand Master Flash, Disco Bee and the Three Emcees. Now I am a star and it’s a rap. We in Dodge High school, Walton high, the Boat rides, Clinton High, Mitchell gym, the P.A.L. on 183rd street, we in Roosevelt high, any where we go we are selling out. Just me and Flash. So Love Bug is kind of like getting under the weather because the money. He’s like “yo J!”
Troy- He’s doing better off by his self right?
A.J.- Yeah, he’s like A.J. you ain’t paying me enough money. He told me you are going to have to give me half of what you are getting! I said you can’t get half, what about the speaker wires, the guy I have to pay to rent the van? I said come on man. So we started arguing over that. Long story short, Love Bug quits. His words were I am not f------ with A.J. I still had Kenny Gee, got a little brush off of Love Bug, but he is not a real rapper, and it wasn’t about that like I said earlier. It was just about him keeping the A.J. going telling them who I was!
A.J.- So I had mines tight. We stayed focused, and kept doing things. A big test came up. I started taking other bookings once my name stepped up. You couldn’t get Flash to play nowhere, he was loyal to Ray Chandler his manager. I on the other hand said I am going to do what I want to do and that was in part because I owned my own equipment, so he couldn’t really tell me anything. The first time I had broke that bond was because of Kool Herc! Kool Herc was on the decline.
Troy- What year was this?
A.J.- This was by at least 1977.
Troy- You know something no one has ever said that. But I noticed that, because I can’t find a tape with him to save my life.
A.J.- You know what, it wasn’t 77. Let’s say September of 1978. In 1978, starting in August, it was about Flash, A.J. and Theodore!
Troy- He had to pass the baton!
A.J.- Let me tell you real quickly how I met Herc before I started D.J.ing. One day this dude sold me this record called Sex Machine. I went to the Hevalo and told Herc I had the record. He was like “what the original James Brown record?” I said “yeah”. He asked me my name and then asked how much did I want for the record. I said I didn’t want any money I just wanted him to shout my name out on the mic so I can tape it.
Troy- (Troy laughs.)
A.J.- And then take it back to the hood.
A.J.- So the chicks can hear it and play me closer. Now I am going to take you back to 1978 of August. Herc comes around my neighborhood because everybody is hearing the name A.J. and cats knew I was from Moore Houses. One day I was in the park and somebody came up to me and said, “Yo this big tall dude was looking for you.” I said what, who? He said he didn’t know who he was, but he was on a bike and he might have been a stick up kid or something. So I went and got my gun and came back down. And here comes Herc, and he rode right past me and then he seen that it was me and said “Yo Aaron what’s up? You remember me, I am the one you sold the Sex Machine to?” I said “Yeah what’s up.” He says to me “I am looking for D.J. A.J. I said I am A.J.!” He says to me “Oh my God…you are doing a lot of things!” Then Herc starts telling me about the Executive Play House. He said “I know you are down with the Black Door, but I am trying to do something with Flash but I can’t get to Ray. But I heard you take bookings on your own.” I said “Yeah as long as Flash is not playing on the same day that I am doing the bookings with you then I can work something out with you.” He says he is doing a back to school thing at the Executive Play House on 174th and Mount Eden. It would be an honor to have you come though and open up with me. I said “what we are talking about because your career is a little bit over, what finance we are talking about.” He asks “what do you want.” I said “Whatever you get I want half, if you get the door I want half.” I started doing a little bit of investigating and went up there to the Play House before the show to see if he really lost it like they said he lost it, and he did!
Troy- So in what way did he lose it?
A.J.- There wasn’t a crowd.
Troy- He lost the crowd. Did he lose his ear for the music as well?
A.J.- He still had the beats and s--- like that. He was playing records, but Flash was the main D.J. by then.
Troy- Right, I feel you.
A.J.- He lost his.
Troy- So it really wasn’t anything for you to make up there, except through your name!
A.J.- Exactly, but it was privilege to play with Herc.
A.J.- So I tell Ray Chandler I am about to play with Herc and I want to put Flash down. Ray says NO! I go to Flash myself and tell him I am going to play with Herc. He says “Don’t put me on the flyer but I am going to try and come to the show.” So I do the show and Love Bug was with me because he had not quit yet. But we were still arguing. So the night we played it was me, Love Bug and Kenny Gee versus Kool Herc and the Herculords. The place was sold out, off the meter. It was crazy jammed pack. So Herc made some money and I kept it moving. Now me and Ray Chandler are going through differences because he is saying he made me, and saying if it wasn’t for us you wouldn’t have this. Then he said no more bookings just do Black Door parties! I was kind of naïve I didn’t want to hear that because I had a little ego. Plus I had guns and thinking I was crazy also. Plus you know the Casanovas were Flash security back then.
The next people that approached me after Herc were the L- Brothers. I have to put this in, I was the first hip hop D.J to take hip hop music to Harlem. This was before Flash because I played in 3333 Broadway.
Troy- I know the place, over on 135th street. My little cousin Marcelo used to live up in there.
A.J.- They had a center in there and I played against Donald Dee and the Sapphire Crew. I battled them over there.
Troy- You are talking about the Disco 4.
A.J.- Right, the Disco 4, I started playing joints they never heard of. They was like “Yo my man.” I said “you see this, what I am doing? Ya’ll n------ see Flash ya’ll will go crazy.”
Troy- How did you get to 3333?
A.J.- Somebody booked me over there. Flash was still doing the Bronx and hadn’t ventured out of the Bronx yet. So I went from 3333 Broadway and I run into L. A. and Willie Gums that had the Roof Top. Remember L. A. that got killed?
Troy- Yeah but he was a young brother at that time.
A.J.- Yes but he was selling drugs, and his brother was a promoter back then. So Willie Gums says to me I am going to bring you and Love Bug over to the Renaissance Ball room (In Harlem on 138th street and 7th avenue.) every day and make it a dollar party. I said whoa that sounds good. From Sunday to Thursday it is me, Love Bug, Donald Dee and the Sapphire Crew in the Renaissance. We were selling it out every night. Now Flash is saying to Ray Chandler what the hell is going on. Flash was telling Ray you got to do something. Now Ray goes down there and gets the Renaissance and puts me and Flash along with Love Bug together. We sell that out. Then we go to the Audubon and sell that out. And that place held like 2000 people. It was Grand Master Flash and the Three emcees and A.J. and Star Ski. Now it’s getting kind of crazy.
Troy- Why is it getting crazy now?
A.J.- Because I am hot where ever I go. Now Love Bug quits. “F--- you, I am getting the F--- out of here.” Okay you gone.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
A.J.- Have a nice day. I got the popularity now it don’t mean anything now, you know what I am saying! So now the L- Brothers are coming up out of nowhere! They came up in the Executive Play House when I battled Herc. During that time they had changed the name from Hevalo to Executive Play House.
Troy- You didn’t tell me it was a battle out and out.
A.J.- Well it was like me playing with Herc but it was a battle. They didn’t list it as a battle, but I went in there to get my rep. Plus that was my crowd and people were amped that I was playing with Herc. Also his system was ridicules. I didn’t really battle Herc but I did battle Flash. I called it a battle because every show I was doing was a battle then, because if you would have slipped that would have been the end of you any way. Plus Flash did come later on and got on my turntables and made me look a little better. I let him and Mele Mel get on and people were watching. So when we did the Rennie and Audubon the skies were the limit then. When Love Bug left I was crazy hot and I started doing my own bookings. I am not messing with Ray or anyone else for that matter.
Troy- Ray is not giving you any more beef about this.
A.J.- The n----- wanted to have me murdered, you crazy! Ray was gangster!
Troy- Did Casanovas bring it to you?
A.J.- Nah them cats had respect for me. N------ don’t know Guy Fisher was backing the Casanova’s. They were my security just like they did security for Flash, and I had some dudes in my crew like Crusader Rob that was gangster. You ever heard of Crusader Rob? He was a Gangster. He is in jail right now, he used to run with Kevin Childs!
Troy- Yeah I know who Kev is. He is a funny dude he used to have a Mercedes Benz sitting in his sneaker store on 125th street back in the days. Some of his people were from my projects. In fact he has that Don Diva magazine today.
A.J.- Right, so Crusader Rob was my security along with Seville Gill and Trey Bag. I had some real crazy dudes running with me too. We used to smoke the Ill and get crazy also.
Troy- So the Casanova’s always had respect for your crew!
A.J.- Right they didn’t f--- with us.
Troy- So you saying Ray Chandler couldn’t sic anybody on you?
A.J.- Nah, he wanted to get me himself, the Chandler family always been crazy like that. They got a lot of brothers like Gordon Chandler and others. They were heavily in the game.
Troy- Was it true that Ray Chandler was also a police officer?
A.J.- Right but an officer in the Hospital and still to this day.
Troy- O.k. so he is a Peace Officer in a hospital.
A.J.- I guess that is what he is, but he isn’t N.Y.P.D. But you would think he was because he is so tall. But he did want to bring it to me.
Troy- Tell me about how you met up with the L- Brothers?
A.J.- The L- Brothers were from Boston Road and their manager approached me and he said yo we want to play at the Audubon with you!
Troy- Who you talking about Trevor?
A.J.- Yeah, you know Trevor? You know what’s up then.
Troy- No I just know my history, I been doing these stories for a while.
A.J.- So he says we know we can’t get Flash and the L- Brothers but if we get L- Brothers and A.J., could you bring Star Ski back? I said well if the money is right. What are ya‘ll going to give me. He said once he gets his expenses back for what he paid for the venue we can split it 3 ways. I say to him who are you going to have D.J.? He said I am going to have you, Love Bug, Mean Gene, Theodore, Breakout and Baron and the Funky 4. At that time nobody in Harlem ever heard of them, and Caz was down also as a soloist, him and Able, as well as Pete D.J. Jones. We did that show and that was crazy!
Troy- That was at the Audubon?
A.J.- Yes. I took the credit because I told Mean Gene that nobody here in Harlem ever heard of the L- Brothers. I told him they got a little crowd but this is Harlem and they came to see A.J. and Love Bug! Because we played that was why we were getting this money we were getting. Now Ray is mad because that was his spot. He was the first to get Audubon and now he feel like I done crossed him because I am playing at the same spots that he took Flash to. He’s getting mad tight sending cats at me but n------ are scared of me because I got mad guns. The Casanovas are like my friends.
Troy- Did you ever have to bust your gun during those times?
A.J.- Nah. I was collecting them but n------ was scared of me, I was a gangster. You would have gotten murdered f------ with me. F------ with my girl you would have gotten it.
Troy- Did you ever have to tap some body’s jaw back then?
A.J.- Nah my name scared you! You wouldn’t even think about f------ my girl. You thought I was down with this and that. You know how the streets are if you really didn’t know what was going on.
Troy- Right it built you up even more.
A.J.- Then my crew would beat you down. You was in trouble if you f----- with me back then. But then Ray is thinking about different ways to get me. So Ray thought it would be the s--- if Flash battled Theodore. This was when the L- Brothers broke up, and they became the Fantastic 5.
Troy- Fantastic 4!
A.J.- Right you on your history. So the streets are talking now saying that would be the s--- if Flash battled Theodore! That’s in the streets you know what I am saying?
A.J.- The streets then said “Well what about A.J.” and Ray Chandlers response was “What about him?” So Ray Chandler was like I am going to put that together and say f--- A.J. So I say to myself okay. The day they were supposed to do that was a day that every d.j. knew not to do a party in the Bronx on that day because everybody will be at Rays party. Theodore versus Flash, is you crazy? So Ray puts it together at Monroe High school. He is giving out the flyers and everybody in the Bronx is talking about it. Flash versus Theodore “You know we are going!” So I said you know I’m going, because I’m not playing that night so I am going too! A lady from my projects got transferred to another center. I used to play in Moore House center and she got transferred to a bigger center called Batances that held about 800 people. She says to me the day before Theodore battles Flash why don’t you play in my center? I said to myself this lady is out of her mind then I told her she was crazy. She said you don’t know what type of impact you made on this community. If you play in my center that night I am telling you, you will get to see who you are. I said I already know who I am, and I am going to the battle! She says if you play in my center I am going to give you 70 percent of the door!
END OF PART ONE...PART 2 COMING SOON !!!
© 2007 TROY L. SMITH No part may be copied or reproduced without authors consent.
Troy- Damn! (Troy starts laughing.) Why she act like she wants to start all this trouble? I know you want to see the battle.
A.J.- I did want to see the battle! But she wanted to show me my self worth. She was just proving to me that I didn’t need Ray Chandler; I didn’t need Flash etc. she was just trying to prove to me that I made it. Love Bug wasn’t with me either at this time, he left. It was just me and Kenny Gee. I told her 70 percent of nothing is…..because ain’t nobody going to be there. She said well why don’t you just try it, you don’t have to spend any money. I am going to sell the food and this and that. I said you know what I am going to take that, what the hell. So we made the flyers and I am passing them out, but I am doing it on the low because every where you go they are talking about Flash and Theodore, telling me “you crazier then a mother f-----!” So the night of the parties, it’s Flash vs. Theodore at Monroe High School and A.J. and Kenny Gee at Batances Center on 146th street and St. Ann’s avenue.
I don’t even want to go to Batances Center. I am thinking what the f--- am I doing, this is so stupid. I felt this was a night just wasted. I said f--- it, it’s a booking. The lady is calling me asking am I coming! “Yeah I’m coming”! She said I got a surprise for you. She kept calling because she didn’t think I was coming, and she kept saying I got a surprise for you. When I would ask what is the surprise she would just say when you get here you will know. At a quarter till 7 we start pushing my equipment over there to the center. As we pushing it through the park and over the hill you can see the center.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
A.J.- It’s a line around the corner!
Troy- Damn kid.
A.J.- Yo it’s a line around the corner!
Troy- For A.J.!
A.J.- Yo it’s a line around the f------ corner waiting for A.J., Yo I probably started crying when I’m pushing my s--- towards the mother f-----!
Troy- I hear you.
A.J.- I said oh my God look at this here. What happened was the word got out! The Flash Theodore s--- was good…..but A.J. s--- was good too. A.J. joint was jammed pack. That night was like it just……
Troy- Blew your head up.!
A.J.- Blew my head up is right.
Troy- And it was just you on that flyer?
A.J.- Just me and Kenny Gee!
Troy- And her surprise was that the crowd was there.
A.J.- Exactly, the place held like 700 to 800. It was like 300 on line when I walked up at 7:30pm. The other 400 hundred that didn’t go to Flash Theodore Party came from the neighborhood, Cypress Avenue and all those projects around me such as Patterson, Mitchell, Melrose! They all came to my party. Even a couple of Casanova’s came to the party.
(Note: I did a story a while back with Theodore and he said he never battled Flash, so after A.J. told me this part of his story I checked back with Theodore. Theodore said he doesn’t remember it being on a flyer as a battle, but he does remember going to Monroe High school that night and Bam was on the set and he let Theodore get on and Theodore once again tore it up and what made it so brilliant for Theodore that night was Bam was passing Theodore breaks after breaks that he never heard of before that night, and they were unbelievable breaks. Bam showed Theodore where the break was at on the record and Theodore took it from there. The crowd went bananas! After Theodore finished his set Flash didn’t want to get on by himself, he D.J.ed for his emcees. The crowd tried to amp him to play but Flash wasn’t going for it.)
Troy- So A.J. what do you think you were doing that made you so popular at that time?
A.J.- Because I kept it right, and those records I was playing were off the hook! Also by me rocking with Flash, I got a little bit of that quick mix off of him. But I wasn’t the best d.j. n-----! But I made the people dance, and all the emcee had to do was get up there and do his little thing. I let him get up there and do his thing, I wouldn’t try and cut fast and make him f--- up. It was real simple, and the thing was I was fly! I had A.J. Lester s--- on. I had Diamonds and Gold on. B------ wanted to see me. I was accepted. Flash was like a regular dressing cat. He didn’t have any jewelry; Flash was probably getting 200 dollars a night then. I was getting like $2000 a night.
A.J.- I was taking a lot of money back then.
Troy- You were taking the door, and he wasn’t promoting, he was just d.j.ing.
A.J.- Exactly, because he had a manager! The manager was getting the money. So I went and bought a van. I bought a van and put my name on the mother f-----!
Troy- What, you had an A.J. van!
A.J.- Yeah I had an A.J. van. I was riding my peeps around. Flash and them was like this n----- is crazy.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
A.J.- I was making cake. Then I got down with Harlem World. I went to 116th street (location of Harlem World 116th street and Lenox avenue.) and opened that up. N------- jumped on me. I started packing that. I am taking half the door over there.
Troy- You were working with Charlie Rock and Fat Jack and them?
A.J.- That’s right Charlie Rock, Son of Sam.
Troy- They allowed you to take half the door like that?
A.J.- They didn’t have a name at the time. They couldn’t do it! You are talking about the Harlem world crew!
Troy- I am talking about allowing you to promote shows like you were doing it!
A.J.- They couldn’t do it. See I was a name. The owner Fat Jack was the man over there. He was the person I was dealing with over there. Him and his wife Edie! I was selling the place out for them.
Troy- Was Busy Bee with you yet?
A.J.- Not yet. So now after all that excitement after the big party, Kenny Gee goes to jail because he had a thing for cars. So now I am like damn, I got the name but I need somebody to flow. I’m thinking about going to get me five emcees now. My payroll is kind of large now, I can afford 5 emcees now, but they got to be nice. I put a little call out “A.J. is looking for emcees!” I could have signed Mr. Ness a.k.a. Scorpio. I could have gotten him before he got with Flash and them. Me and his ego was bumping heads, so I let that go. Mostly because Mel and them were courting him as well as I was. But the situation would have been better because he would have gotten more money and more light. But he really wasn’t that good, but he was o.k. he wasn’t a Creole or Mele Mel.
Troy- Cowboy or Raheim!
A.J.- Exactly, But he was o.k. cause he was little pretty boy n----- and all that. But how I got Busy Bee was Afrika Bambaataa calls me one day and tells me he is trying to get the P.A.L. at 183rd street. He knew that me and Flash always rocked that spot. He tells me that the dude didn’t want to give him the spot unless he had Flash or A.J. to vouch for him. So I then asked him what are you saying. He asks will you play with me. I said to him I heard of you, but you are all the way over there in Bronx River and you are a dollar dude that plays over there in that big center for one dollar. So you want to come over to Webster and 183rd street? This is prime time right there.
A.J.- What could you possibly give me?
Troy- I never heard that before . I was never a great fan of their music, so I understand what you are saying although I did like Pow Wow, Jazzy Jay and Lisa Lee. How much were you charging for your parties back then?
A.J.- Five dollars to see A.J.!
A.J.- No ladies free or nothing…five dollars.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
A.J.- Once in awhile maybe five dollars for the brothers, and maybe three dollars for the ladies some nights. You know we mix it up. Another thing I have to add is these cats used to call me to play. I didn’t call Herc or L- Brothers or Bam etc. they called me to play with them! So I played with Bam that night. I bought Love Bug back again for that night. It was crazy that night also.
Troy- So Love Bug was like a free agent for you. When ever you need him for special occasions he would step up to the plate.
A.J.- Yeah for certain s---! The P.A.L. was kind of big. Bam was giving me half of what he was getting. He went to get the place by his self and couldn’t get it, so the dude said get A.J. because you can’t get Flash. If you get A.J. I’m going to give you the same deal I gave Ray Chandler. So he came and got me and gave me half his money and we slammed packed it. The Mercedes Ladies did the same thing, they came and got me. I played with them and we packed it. Now me and Bam are kind of cool now, he is like my friend. He is calling my house asking me what I am doing such and such night. I told him I am really booked up for the year. So what’s going on?
Troy- For the year!
A.J.- For the whole year! So I asked him what you want to do. He tells me I am doing something special at Bronx River and I want to put you down for special guest. I said nah don’t put me on the flyer, but I am going to come. He probably did it on a Thursday at Bronx River Center for a dollar! I said don’t put me down but I am going to come through and show you some love. I am probably not going to play but I will do a walk through for you.
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
A.J.- This was big back then. That’s why they got the history f----- up, I am glad you are talking to me.
Troy- I hear you.
A.J.- So now that night I go its jam packed yo. But it’s a dollar. Anybody can pack a spot for a dollar. Bam got his name because of Bronx River and he would pass records to Jazzy Jay. He really got his rep from Jazzy Jay. So I go up in there, and security is amazed to see me. But in my mind I am saying damn I got to find me some rappers. When I walk in the party everybody was star struck, looking at me at that time, was like looking at Flash. They shout out “A.J. is the house and up on the stage chilling.” Jazzy asks me do I want to get on I say no I don’t want to play. I didn’t come for that. Busy Bee is up there and that n----- is gun slinging. He is tearing the house down, but he is duplicating Love Bug Star Ski.
A.J.- He is doing everything that Love Bug does. But he says his name is Busy Bee Star Ski. I didn’t like that, I said this dude is crazy. I knew Love Bug so I didn’t like that, but it was his delivery, he is rocking this mother f-----. He had just broken up with the L- Brothers and that I believe was because they didn’t have any concept. Theodore was freelancing, Busy Bee, everybody was freelancing. So I said I am going to try and get Busy Bee with me. But I am going to have a problem with his name. But his style was ridiculous. So I go up to him and I say yo my man. He was star struck. I tell him I am going to let you play with me. I am going to make you the highest paid emcee in New York N-----. I asked him how much he was getting paid. He told me something that couldn’t touch what I was offering him. I told him I would give him 400 to 500 a night. You with me, you with A.J.! He said o.k. it’s like that!
This other dude comes to me and he says I heard you are looking for emcees! I said who told you that? Well I see you talking to Busy Bee and I know Kenny Gee is in jail. I heard about Love Bug. You know Troy how the streets be talking. I said who are you, being as you know all my business, are you the police. He said nah my name is Andre Harrell but they call me Dr. Jeckyll. I said o.k., but I never heard of you. He said I am from Manhattan. I said well o.k. get on the mic let me see how you get down. I might put you and Busy Bee down. He said no disrespect, but me by myself I am really not that good but I have a partner his name is Hyde. He said it’s the way we do it, because I am not worth nothing by myself. You have to see both of us together. Like the way we rotate the mic and this and that and this and that. I said o.k .so where is he? He said he is not here because we have a gig in Foster center (The name was later changed to King Towers Projects, across from Harlem World.) later on tonight and he is waiting for me. If you would like you can come down there and see us! I said well right now I am going to go with Busy Bee my man. Troy the brother was real convincing. I said you know what, Busy take my number and come to practice Monday we are going to start off rocking at the Renaissance. I got so many bookings, all you need to be worried about is calling me at my house and we getting tight. So I leave with Andre and he takes me Foster Projects and they are kind of nice. I was like whoa, o.k.! I said I am going to have Three Emcees. It’s going to be Busy Bee and Jeckle and Hyde. My first show was at the Renaissance. Do you know about the time when The Furious emcees left Flash?
Troy- Yes, Charlie Chase filled in.
A.J.- And at this time I was back with Ray Chandler free lancing.
Troy- Even though you and him are beefing he wants you to do parties with him?
A.J.- It was because I had the crowd. I told you that night I did the Batanses by my self I am now a made man! And I didn’t need Love Bug any more. He tells me he is doing the Renaissance. I tell him I heard the emcees quit. Troy who did you say took Flash’s place?
Troy- Charlie Chase.
A.J.- Charlie Chase? I don’t remember that!
Troy- I was surprised also, but I even have it on tape! (Tape 12.) And it is written in the history books. It only lasted probably a month, if that.
A.J.- O.K. it probably did. That one got passed me. So when the Furious 5 quit, Flash used Kurtis Blow and Star Child.
Troy- Right Kool Kyle the Star Child.
A.J.- Right so it was Kool Kyle the Star Child, Kurtis Blow and me, Busy Bee and Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. N------ paid to see the D.J.s. It was sold out, Flash playing the beat box and all that. We were rocking. Now Jeckyll and Hyde are up on the big stage now. Andre I put you on the big stage!!! He don’t want to hear that now.
Troy- (We both start laughing.)
A.J.- Andre I pulled you out of Foster Projects and I put you on the big stage with the Grand Master and A.J.! Now you are rocking. After the Renaissance my next show is Harlem World. I did this by myself with Jekyll and Hyde and Busy Bee along with the Harlem World Crew with Ronnie Green. We sold that out. This dude in Harlem World pulled their coat and said you don’t need A.J.! Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde did three shows with me and quit. So now they got down with the Harlem World Crew. They made records with D.J Randy and them. Me and Busy Bee kept it moving slaying everything in our sight. In Harlem we also took it to the Celebrity Club, Randy’s Place, down town in midtown to Printing high school gym, and Smith projects gym way down town on the lower east side. Also the Henry Street Settlement, which is a community center that is still there today. I am selling out everywhere. Promoters started trying to get at me. The thought was what if we get Flash, A.J. and Theodore on the same card. It would take a lot of money but I think Russell Simmons got with this other dude name Winton. They did the show at the Hotel Diplomat (43rd street, between 6th and 7th Avenue.)
Troy- What is over there today?
A.J.- I think a Club called the Kit Kat Klub was last there. But there were a lot of things there after the Hotel Diplomat. Today there is nothing there, it is abandoned!
Troy- With Russell Simmons, was that the first time you heard his name?
A.J.- No, Russell was a promoter for Kurtis Blow and he used to come around. I got wind of him in 1979.
Troy- Was he promoting in the Bronx?
A.J.- No, in Queens with Kurtis Blow but he wanted to get with the big dogs! I went to Queens with that promoter Winston for a minute. I took Hip Hop to Queens too. When I went there they loved me also. I still would tell them you ain’t seen nothing wait to you see Flash! I was giving out flyers in Queens for me, Flash and Theodore’s joint. A lot of people from Queens came to the Hotel Diplomat party. That was a Russell Simmons show. It was off the chain it was a line around the corner. I played again that night at Norman Thomas High school (33rd street and Park avenue.) with Love Bug Star ski. Me and Love Bug started going back & forth getting bookings, adding each other on. Then we went to Printing High School. Flash, A.J. and Theodore, just us 3! Flash had Mel, I had Busy and Theodore had Water Bed Kev.
S--- got big, real big. It got to the point I was ready for an anniversary. I wanted to have it at Harlem World, but I wanted it to be special. Things got real crazy when The Sugar Hill Gang came on the scene, out of nowhere! That is what stopped our flow. Everybody was like who the f--- is these n------. We were selling out everything, crazy. Baron and Break Out along with the Cold Crush and a few others were there. When the Sugar Hill Gang came everybody was like who the hell are these cats. The first show Sugar Hill Gang did was in Harlem World. The guy who promoted it booked them and A.J. and Busy Bee. But the show was wack because he changed the dress code. You know how hip hop is.
Troy- So he wanted to crowd to dress like they were going to a Disco!
A.J.- He wanted the crowd to dress like they were going to 371! So that f--- it up. Harlem World holds a whole lot of people. That night maybe a Hundred people came to see the Sugar Hill Gang, and it was $10!
Troy- Not only the price but it really attributed to the way the crowd was told to dress.
A.J.- Exactly, put your shoes on n----- or don’t come!
Troy- So when you did see them perform, how did you feel about their show?
A.J.- I really wasn’t paying attention because I had an ego. Plus they had a band so I really wasn’t feeling them. They were just some other dudes! But as time goes by, the record is getting hotter! So Willie Gums and L.A. come at me and say they want to do that again. But we are going to put you and the Sugar Hill Gang along with Flash in the Audubon, and we want you to help promote it! I said it sounds good but I don’t know how Ray Chandler is going to feel about that! Sure enough when they went to Ray Chandler with it he said no! It was like we didn’t need Flash because me and Busy Bee along with the Sugar Hill Gang was the biggest party of all time, it was sold out. Come as you are n-----, hip hop! Everybody that had a record and everybody that was trying to get a record deal. Every record company that was looking for a rapper they were up in there. It was being advertised on the radio by WBLS, so every one heard about it. The Sugar Hill Gang with A.J. and Busy Bee opening up. It was $10. I told you the Audubon was the biggest and it was packed. The record came out in October, so it might have been in February.
The night of the Audubon everybody had demos that had ambitions, visions and dreams as well as record executives came to that show because it was hip hop. Boom that night Woody Wood, Hollywood, Super Rhymes, Spoonie Gee all these mother f----- are up in there. But people came to see the Sugar Hill Gang and A.J... So this is how this chick flips. Sylvia Robinson is down with Willie Gums. They split in half and probably gave me a thousand dollars. That was a whole lot of money back then. So now she is giving me orders while we were at the sound check. She says her group has a band and they are only going to do their one song. She says tonight is going to be your night. So I don’t want you to play any rap records. I don’t want to hear any Spoonie Gee, Super Rapping or King Tim the 3rd! I just want to hear break beats all night. O.k. say no more! Just give me my money. The show starts and its jam packed. It was off the meter. Here comes Russell Simmons. Yo A.J. what’s up! Yo Russell get from behind the ropes! yo back that n----- up! Yo A.J. I need to talk to you. I got something that is very important. Yo Russell what’s going on, this is my night. Yo A.J. I just did a demo with Kurtis Blow; I paid for the whole thing. I want you to hear this. I can’t hear it now because I can’t play any Rap records. A.J. if you hear this s--- you will like it and you are going to want to play this. Russell the lady doesn’t want me to play any Rap records and she just paid me. He still gives me the record and I put it in my crate. Flash is there and he is hounding me to get on. Because Sylvia is there he wants to get on. He is like A.J. I know you are going to let me play! I said I am going to let you play when I am ready. Chill, slow down back up!
Troy- (Troy starts laughing.)
A.J.- This could have been your show but it’s mine. Back up Grand Master! Of course I am going to let him play.
Troy- Plus you and him are pretty cool right?
A.J.- Exactly! We were like best friends back then. F--- Ray Chandler. Of course I am going to let him get on, but you got to let me get my props first. Plus Sylvia Robinson is taking notes lying in a beach chair.
Troy- (Troy busts out laughing.)
A.J.- (A.J. starts laughing.)
Troy- A f--…excuse me, a beach chair huh!
Troy- Queen of the Nile!
A.J.- Flash didn’t get any money with that Bobby Robinson joint. So now he is in the daze. And Furious 5 is not there but Mel is. Well the Furious is there but they are scattered. Flash is tapping me; yo A.J. let me get on. Yo Flash I am going to let you get on, but you can’t play any rap records. I am letting you know right now that is the number one rule. I let him get on and he does his thing, then here comes Theodore and he wants to get on.
Troy- Everybody wants to get on.
A.J.- Right. go ahead Theodore do your thing too. So now Russell gets a chance to talk to me and he is f------ with me. A.J. why don’t you…….Yo Russell my man let me say something to you, you are a promoter, you ain’t nobody to me….security!
Troy- (Troy is laughing.)
A.J.- I got the crazy security too. Yo get this n----- on out of here, make this n-----… Yo A.J. let me say something to you! Yo Russell what? Just listen to the record. If you listen to the record I won’t mess with you anymore. I said you know what let me take this out and listen to this mother f-----. That was the type I person I was. And I didn’t owe him anything. Theodore is playing but I threw the head phones on and listened from the other turntable and said let me listen to this while you let that play. So I put the head phones on and the record starts ding ding didatding da it’s Another One Bites the Dust. Zoom zoom zoom and Kurtis Blow is talking about Christmas and s---!
A.J.- And Christmas is coming up, but the track is f------ crazy. I said oh no, this s--- is crazy; I am going to play it. I am going to be the first…this is hot! Straight up. While Theodore is playing I say to myself I am going to play it. But Russell doesn’t know. The Sugar Hill Gang went on and did their record and now it’s back to me and I am closing out. N------ ain’t going anywhere they is stuck. Sugar Hill Gang did o.k. but this is hip hop and heads were all over the place. Flash, Theodore and Bam and so many other people that were hip hop stars were there. So I come back on with Kurtis Blow. When the crowd heard this they went crazy. The whole spot started rocking. I gave Kurtis Blow the mic and said go ahead and do your thing. Yo Kurtis Blow rocked it! He rocked it! Here go Russell, yo A.J. we owe you the f---ing world. I said yeah I know you do. The record exes are there and they are chasing him and Russell now. So I catch Russell at the end and he got about 5 or 6 appointments. When we sell the record our first date is going to be with you A.J. where ever you do it at. The next day on the radio Christmas Rapping is playing. Kurtis Blow is hot now. I told him “yo I am doing Celebrity Club on 25th make sure Kurtis Blow is there, straight up and down.” That was like paying me back for what I did for ya’ll in the Audubon.
A.J.- “.o.k., Don’t worry about it.” The night of the Celebrity Club (125th street between 5th and Lenox Avenue. Closer to 5th, across from Hard as Hard) it’s crazy again. It’s sold out. I was the one selling the tickets I might have sold about 500 tickets. Ten dollar tickets again and they had a bar in there. I had Kurtis Blow, A.J. and Busy Bee. A young girl comes up to me and asks “are you A.J. I said yes, she says I am Kurtis Blows niece.” I said “o.k. what’s the problem where is he at?” She says “he is in Texas.” (A.J. starts laughing.) I said “what?!” “he isn’t going to be here tonight and he told me to tell you.” I said “oh no, it’s going to be crazy now.”
Troy- You got people expecting him to be there.
A.J.- The whole crowd thought he was going to be there. I am not even thinking about giving this money back, you are crazy then a mother f-----! Now I am looking around, and I jump on the stage and tell the people you know I don’t play any games, but I was the first to play Kurtis Blow’s record and he said he would play here tonight but he won’t be able to make it. Everybody was pissed, you hear a crowd up roar! “But I got a surprise for ya’ll do ya’ll want to hear Grand Master Flash and Mele Mel.” The crowd went berserk. That was it. “Flash come and do your thing.” Flash saved me. Him and Mele Mel tore it down. So I got out of that but when I run into Russell Simmons I tell him that was some Bull s---. He was like “yo A.J. we was hot. We were taking bookings and we forgot about your date.” And this and that and this and that! So we went with that, and I let that roll. As time went by people were getting deals. Sylvia didn’t sign me, but she signed Flash, Funky Four, Spoonie Gee etc. Then she tried to take Busy Bee from me! I wrote a song for Busy Bee that he took out to Jersey. She tells him “yo Busy you have to get rid of A.J., A.J. is not a good look he is too gangster. I am going to let my son D.J. for you.” Busy was like how you going to do that when A.J. wrote the song. The song was Making Cash Money. I wrote the whole song.
Troy- Busy didn’t tell me that.
A.J.- He couldn’t even write back then, Busy wasn’t even a real rapper he took Love Bugs style.
Troy- All ya’ll is some funny dudes man. (Troy is laughing.)
A.J.- The only reason why he was accepted for taking Love Bugs style… because Love Bug was going to smash him….the only reason why he was accepted was because he played with me! And Love Bug was my man and he knew I was a Gangster. Plus I had the crowd. He did Love Bugs same thing but he did it on my show. The next thing you know Love Bug was shaking his hand, because Busy Bee was rocking. Then he started making up his own thing “Sperm that Jingle Jangles.” His s--- started flowing and “where’s that place that we work it out, at the Alps.” You know he got his own little s--- but he still had that Busy Bee Star Ski tag with him. He didn’t want to get rid of that. The only reason why he got accepted through the culture and I wanted to tell him that is he played with me. And Love Bug couldn’t f--- with me. If he would have been with anybody else Love Bug would have said “yo this n----- can’t play.” And the other cats would have probably been so scared because it was Love Bug that they would have said Busy you are going to have to keep it moving. He was with A.J. and he stayed so he had longevity then he became big because I played in front of sold out houses and he was rocking.
Troy- I wish you would have read the story I did with Busy Bee before we did this.
A.J.- Me too, but I will first chance I get.
Troy- How did you meet this kid name Son of Hollywood and why did you put him on of all people?
A.J.- Well D.J. Hollywood was number one, he was the King!
Troy- In fact before you get to that how did you feel about the Disco Hip hop, opposed to the hip hop you and Busy and the other guys were doing?
A.J.- I really didn’t respect them on that. They were there but they couldn’t f--- with us.